death of my parakeet and i would like to know if parakeets in general

Hi Isabell. I remember your previous questions. I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like the test that was run was a gram stain test? Does that sound right? If you still have the medicine that was prescribed, can you tell me the exact name of it? Was the medicine he told you to put in the water the same thing that he told you to give him by mouth? Also, was the doctor you saw a true avian vet or just a regular vet who tried to help? If you can help me with this extra information, it will help me to give you my best answers and advice about this. Thanks, Patricia

I am so sorry to hear of the passing of the other bird. In retrospect now, I feel that both your first bird and now the other one both died of an infectious disease called psitticosis. A diagnosis of infectious disease seemed unlikely to me at first, since neither bird was showing clinical signs of infectious disease prior to the untimely passing of your first bird. Also, the fact that the first bird who passed was never really all that perky, playful, or talkative from the getgo, and that this continued for all that time, led me to believe that she had was just a chronic poor doer with one or more weak organ systems.

Most birds infected with psitticosis show clinical signs of disease prior to succombing to it, sufficient enough for the owner to notice, and pursue a treatment resolution at the vet. However, it seems that your birds followed a less typical course of disease, where they were infected, but rather than show hallmark clinical signs of becoming acutely clinical with disease, they became chronic subclinical carriers. In this state, they can go on indefinately unknowingly spreading disease to other birds. At some point, however, any stress can change the status of disease from chronic to acute, causing clinical disease - the way things have transpired, I believe this is what has occured with your birds. They were likely infected and already chronic carriers at the petstore you bought them from. Otherwise, the only other way they could get it would be from exposure to new birds introduced, or by exposure to any wild birds (neither of which are the case).

My advice to you is to have any remaining birds seen by your vet and treated with an appropriate antibiotic ASAP, even if they are showing no clinical signs of disease. Do not add any new birds at this time. If in the future you wish to add one or more new birds, you should not do this for 60 days following: 1.) the end of treatment, or 2.)following the cessation of clinical signs.

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Best of luck to you, and thank you for choosing JustAnswer! Please do not hesitate to let me know if I may be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Roger L. Welton, DVM
President, Maybeck Animal Hospital
Author, "Canine And Feline 101"

That diagnosis may or may not be accurate. Without the necropsy no one will ever know. However, whatever it was, it proves how very unwise the advice you received previously was, about going out and immediately bringing in a new bird. That is something we with resident birds, should never, ever do. I believe, at the very least, you can now see how unwise it would be to have brought a new bird in and placed it with your remaining bird without benefit of the quarantine. If you should decide now, that you want more birds, you must be scrupulous in the cleanning and disinfecting of the cage and any other equipment you want to use for a new bird. Any item that cannot be thoroughly disinfected, safely with a mild bleach and water solution then rinsed well, should be thrown away. Thanks, Patricia

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thanks for the answer and yes i bought another bird after the first bird died so my second bird would have some company.now he died to and only the new bird is left.they were together 2weeks.is this enough time to propably get exposed to the desease from the other bird?propably,right? and the doktor gave me yesterday an antibiotic what he want me to give the bird which died now(cooki).and i tryed to catch him carefully,of course he was trying to fly away like crazy and than he fall or flew on the bottom and tryed to walk away but could not and his legs were spred out backwards and than he was death.what do you think he had,was it a heart attack? and do you think it was painful for him or very fast? what if i now have to catch my other bird to give her the antibiotic and she is dieing to because i catch her?the dokter i visit is an avian vet and he gave me the first time for the water this:doxy susp.50mg/ml per oz.and after this did not do any changes he gave me yesterday an antibiotic whit this name:baytril sus 22mg/ml-30ml. he wants me to give it twice daily to the infectet bird for 10 days,into the mouth.and he gave me also a lugols solution which i have to add to the water from now on while i would have gave my bird,which died,the antibiotics.is there not any other way to give the birds the medizin per shot or somehowelse? im so scared to try to catch the bird now ,i did not want to do it from the beginning on anyway.now my bird died and im blaming myself because i tryed to catch him.the new bird sometimes does a very little bit the hang over posture .and i once read somewhere that this is a bad sign?and you really think i should not bye any other bird as long im not sure that my bird is fine.sounds logic,im just afraid that he feels so lonely.what if i by a new bird and new cage and seperate them for the whole time?like the new bird will stay in his cage and my bird in his own cage as well till we think he is fine and than i trow the old cage away and put them both into the new cage?

hello patricia! thank you very much for your reply to me .i wrote you guys last night my time, and got back to the computer just an half an hour ago.dr.r.welton answered me too and you answered me too.the doktor is an avian doktor .when i came to him the first time it was when my first bird-bubi died. my second bird was cooki ,which died last night when i tried to catch him carefully.i did not want to do it from the beginning on,but the doktor said this would be the only way to put the antibiotics -baytril sus 22mg/ml-30ml,tmice a day for 10days,-into my birds mouth.so the doktor let me choose how i want to start with the medizin.he said also he does not know how good it would help the bird with the medizin in the water,which was called doxy susp 50mg/ml per oz, at all.but i tryed it for one week,and yesterday we talked back and i told him nothing changed at all its even a little worse.so he toled me to come in and get a different medizin-antibiotic which is called baytrill sus 22mg/ml-3oml.and thats what i tryed to give my bird -cooki last night and tryed to catch him carefully.and he died .is this typically for the birds that they can die from catching them because they are scared or is that only the case for sick birds?when the doktor catchtd him last week to do the exam he seemed at least ok and did not die.

I feel so bad for you that you are having all these problems. He was certainly right when he was doubtful about the benefit of putting any kind of medication ithe water. Maybe he thought it was a last ditch try but even so, and generally speaking, a true certified avian vet would not have suggested putting any kind of medication in the water, There are three main problems with that. It can make the water taste so bad they won't drink at all, which means not only are they not getting any meds, they are dehydrating. Second problem, it can foul the water and make it go bad very shortly, meaning you have to change it often, throwing the medicine away with the old water. And third, there is no way at all to be able to control the doseage. If he didn't, one more thing he should have done is to add a flavoring to the medicine so you would not have to be forcing a real nasty taste into the mouth. Antibiotics taste really bad but sometimes, unless we know to insist, they won't add the flavoring. I feel like a really good vet would have shown you exactly how to administer the medicine directly and, very important, would have shown you ways to quickly towel and handle the bird causing the least amount of stress possible. The stress was probably a huge factor in his death. Even healthy birds do not handle stress well. An ill bird is already stressed and when additional stress is added, it just becomes more than their bodies and hearts can handle. I don't know what your plans now are about maybe trying to get any more birds but if you do decide to try again, please be sure you have done all the proper disinfecting that I talked about. Since you don't know exactly what was wrong, the safest thing to do is to proceed as if the bird had the most contagious disease possible and clean everything accordingly. Also, it would be wise to stay away from pet stores. At least, from the large chain stores like PetCo, PetSmart, PetLand, etc. Way too often, their birds are already sick. You best bet, if you want to try again, is to locate a local, reputable breeder. They will have the highest quality birds with the best genetic background. The best part is that almost always, a breeder is only asking about one half what a pet store will charge for the same kind of bird. It's also good to have what we call a hospital cage, or carrier on hand, for an ill bird. They need to be kept warmer than normal anyway, plus, as you have seen, they shouldn't have to be chased around a large cage when it's time for their medicine. One type of carrier I have found to be handy for the small birds are the clear plastic, shoe box sized storage bins you can find at WalMart, or KMart or similar stores. Punch several holes in the lid so there is plenty of circulation, line it with many layers of plain white paper towels and put two real sturdy crock types of dishes in one end for the food and water. Something heavy enough it can't be turned over. Of course that is not good for the long term but as a temporary "sick room" they can work great. I hope this helps you some more but if you have any more questions, just let me know. Patricia

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ok patricia,thank you again.well,i desided to go now and bye a complete new cage with everything else and throw the other one with all around away.once the bird is in the new cage ,what should i do .should i give her the antibiotics(baytril sus 22mg/ml-30ml ) which actualy was for the other bird? the doktor also gave me an extra fluid ,something again to put again in the water ,its called -lugol's solution-. and can you tell me how i should do it to best catch the bird so it is the most less stressfull for her? and sometimes she(rosi) seems to me like a little bit hang over posture,i read somewhere that it is a bad sign of sickness ? do you know about it? and when i deside to bye a new bird for rosi ,because she is so lonely now ,should i put the new one in a seperat cage than ? and for how long? maybe the new one is sick to ? what would you do? and one more question,do you think my bird did suffer a lot when he died or do you think he almost did not feel anything? maybe you know from experience? thank you so much ,your answers help me alot! i will pay when we done.thank you,bye isabell.

Isabell. You are most welcome. I want you to keep asking until you feel you are comfortable with everything and have all the answers you need. You don't worry about paying until we have you all ready to go. Now, I think I have gotten confused on how many birds you had. I thought I understood there were two, one died first, then the other. I thought you were down to no birds left. But you still have just one now? If so, how long have you had this one. Is it the one that you brought home while you still had a sick one? Where are you planning to buy the next one from? Help me get my head straight on this and we will go from there, okay? Thanks, Patricia

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im sorry,that i confused you.yes,i have one more bird-rosi-which i bought after the first one -bubi- died.i just did it so my second one - cooki - had some company. and cooki is the second bird which died last night while i tryed to catch him carefully.everything happened within two weeks.i got the new bird-rosi- right after the first bird -bubi- died. so i have the new bird rosi two weeks now.what do you think.i just got back from the petco store and bought everything new.(cage and toys) i di not bye an other bird because im not sure right now what do do.the doktor called me in between and i told him what happened,he was sorry and nice and he said that the bird cooki was sick and week already and when i tryed to catch him that was propably to much stress for him and he died.exactly what you said.and he said i should give the new bird rosi still the lugol's solution which he gave me for the water.and he said i should wait a few days till i get a new bird again because it would be to much stress for rosi,the loss and than a new one to fast is an other stress factor.its to early.and we need to see how she is doing till monday at least.any signs of sickness or so.what do you think about it all?and what you think about the hang over posture witch i think appears sometimes with rosi? she also does sneese sometimes.

Isa, the fact that she is sneezing and leaning over are both hallmark signs that she does indeed have respiratory disease, psitticosis being the most common respiratory pathogen in companion birds. The organism that causes psitticosis is an avian version of the bacteria, clamydia. Both doxycycline and Baytril are effective against psitticosis. However, direct dosing to ensure that the bird gets the full, accurate dose is very important at this point, I would not use the doxy added to the water.   Instead, treat her with the Batyril suspension directly.

I agree with everything he told you, except about waiting only a few days to get a new bird. As I stated in my earlier post, you should wait 60 days and several thorough cage cleanings beyond resolution of all signs of illness of this bird before considering getting another one. Social isolation does indeed stress the bird, but the far greater danger is to continue to spread the disease from one bird to another, perpetuating the problem. GOOD LUCK!

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Best of luck to you, and thank you for choosing JustAnswer! Please do not hesitate to let me know if I may be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Roger L. Welton, DVM
President, Maybeck Animal Hospital
Author, "Canine And Feline 101"

ok,so you think i just give her the baytril by catching her and putting the baytril solution directly into her mouth.the doktor gave me a little syringe with the medizine and said twice a day one drop.how can i catch her? i dont know and im so scared to do it now.i bought the new cage with everything in it and she is not going into it herself.i emptyed the original cage and throwed everything away and now she acts totaly confused looking for her swing to go to sleep and cant find it.she is flying to where it used to be and sometimes falling down by doing it because its not there anymore.i put the new cage right in front of the old cage so she just has to jump into the new cage.but she does not know and act very nervous and confused.

I didn't realize that she is loose. Okay, the best way to catch a loose flying parakeet is to start by making certain that all doors to other rooms are closed. This way she is definately confined to one area. Next, grab a medium sized bath towel to catch her in, rather than grabbing her with your hands. The towel enables you to spread it open, creating a larger surfce area to catch her in than your hands - and it is less traumatic. Approach her steadily and slowly with the towel open, corner her and gather her up in the towel. She may flap her wings and thrash, but in the towel she should not injure herself. Once you have her calm, approach the cage and open the towel flush with the cage opening so that the cage is the only place she has to go. Once in the cage, you can get a hold of her when you need to without her flying off. The only time she should come out of the cage is to get her treatment. Reach in and clasp your hand around her body and wings, with her little head sticking out the top, and her little feet sticking out the bottom. DO not sqeeze too tight, but only firm enough to hold her still. Apply the Baytril by gently getting the opening of the syringe directly in her mouth, and place her back in the cage. Hopefully, the vet or one of his technicians showed you a good technique for administering treatment. If not, they should have. If you have serious trouble treating, call your vet and ask if you may take the bird in for he or one of his techs to show you how to do it (it is sometimes difficult to clearly describe it, as well and comprehend it, in a written post).

Consider perhaps getting the little girl a new swing for her new cage, so she has something familar - it is important to keep stress to a minimum until she recovers. Finally, make certain that there are no chills in the room, keeping it as warm as you can tolerate.   Good luck with everything.

__________________
Best of luck to you, and thank you for choosing JustAnswer! Please do not hesitate to let me know if I may be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Roger L. Welton, DVM
President, Maybeck Animal Hospital
Author, "Canine And Feline 101"

she is not lose ,she is sitting in her old cage which is empty now and im scared to catch her with my hands .i bought the new cage with all the toys and swings she needs.i emptyed the old cage but she is still in there and does not want to come out.but the cage is always open and i put the new cage right in front of her so she just has to jump into the new one.but she seems scared and nervous and is hanging on the cage wall in her old,empty cage and does not move.and im to scared to catch her now with my hands or anything.i think it is maybe the best think just to let her hang on the cage wall untill she is maybe getting hungry tomorrow and hopefully goes into the new cage where everything is now,all the food and water of course too.and is there any technic to catch a bird without much stressing her inside the cage?after my bird died last night because i tryed to carefully and slowly to catch her with my hands im scared to and dont want to lose rosi too.and shouls i just start togive her the baytril antibiotic from tomorrow on? im so scared to catch her.

Isabell, what you should have done is to hold off with the new cage and everything. She is still sick and if you put her in contact with the new cage, you are just risking spreading it to the new equipment. While she is ill, everything should have been left exactly as she is used to. Whatever you do, do not go out and bring home another bird right now. And please, please, stop wasting your money at PetCo. I would not be at all surprised if all the birds in their store are sick. You are just throwing good money after bad if you continue to buy birds from them. Very often they buy birds from really questionable sources, the birds are ill or close to it and they get them very cheap. Then they sell them to the unsuspecting public for way too much money. If you want another bird, but only after Rosi gets a clean bill of health, try to find a local breeder. Stop giving these chains stores your money. Not only are you wasting the money, you are encouraging them to just keep buying more sick little birds. You definitely need to be giving her the medicine directly and not in her drinking water. But, you also must be very careful not to force any of it into her lungs. Before you start with her, taste just the tiniest drop of it on your own tongue. If the vet did not add the flavoring I was talking about, it's going to taste really nasty. If that's the case, take it to him and have him add the flavoring. It is going to be stressful enough giving her the medicine. It's going to be even worse if it tastes terrible. If it's not too late, the new stuff needs to be disinfected and put away until she is well. Let her go back to all her old stuff that she was accustomed to. If it's too late for that, you are going to have to keep the new stuff disinfected until she is well. The safest thing you can use near her is a vinegar and water solution, then rinse well. Don't use any kind of commercial cleaner on her stuff, or anywhere near her. Let me know if you need anything else. Patricia

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hi patricia,thanks again.i bought all new stuff but its ok about the money.i just hope she goes sometime over to the other cage.she did not do it yet and her old cage is empty already everyth,is in the new cage.i just let her deside whenever she is ready to go to the other cage than she can and i think she will be hungry or thursty and then she propably goes anyway.do you think thats the right think to do? and im going to look for a breeder when im buying a new bird.i feel so sorry for the birds in the stores.i will find out about the flavor in the medizin,if there is nothing in it i will ask the dokter to add it.can you tell me how to catch her inside the cage the best way to give her the medizin?im so scared to do it now.and you said something with her lungs,when i put the medizin into her little mouth.should i be careful with something specific? and do i have to go deep into her mouth or just right in the front to give her the medizin?im so scared,i dont want to lose her by doing this.and one more question.if i would bye a new bird and in a seperate cage and dont let them come together till she is fine ,would that help her not feeling so lonely? or is that illness contages thru the air?i really thank you so much for answering all my questions ,im so glad this exists! i want to pay you now and dr.r.welton too ,because he answered me to.should i do it only one time and you guys split it or should i do it seperatly?

Okay I'm going to try to cover the issues one at a time for you. (By the way, if you have not been printing out all this information so you can keep it for future reference, it would be a good idea to do that.)

1. Since you have all new equipment but you still have an ill bird, under no circumstance should you even think about adding another until she is cured and gets a clean bill of health from the vet. As soon as she does, you need to disinfect everything all over again and immediately. The last thing you need to be worrying about right now is whether she needs a friend or not. As soon as she starts using her new cage, get the other one disinfected and move it to another room so it will be clean, safe, and ready for another bird. Don't let her anywhere near it until she gets that clean bill of health.

2. About giving her the medicine. If the vet gave you a plunger type thing, you should not use that but get yourself an eye dropper instead. The plunger types are too easy to mess up with and most important, your hand or fingers can slip and force too much, too fast, into her mouth. No, you definitely do not want to try to put it deep in her throat. There is much more risk of strangling her or forcing it into her lungs. Using the eye dropper gives you much better control and allows you to just put a drop or two at a time into her mouth and give her time to swallow it. But again, make sure it has been flavored so that she is not struggling because of the bad taste. She is probably going to be struggling enough anyway so you don't need anything making it worse for her. The best way to restrain her is to drape a face cloth over her whole body, from the "chin" down, then encircle her with one hand while making sure you are not putting any pressure on her body. Birds do not have diaphrams like we do and they must be able to expand and contract their entire body to get a breath. Hold a bird too tight can suffocate it as surely as if you closed off her beak and nose. If you have someone to help you, the whole thing can go much quicker and more smoothly. Medicating a nervous bird is much harder if you have to to it by yourself. If you have someone who can gently restrain her while all you have to do is gently open her beak and put in the drops of medicine, it will be so much easier for all of you. Be sure to wash and scald the eye dropper in between each time you give her the meds.

3. If and when, you decide to get another bird, it will definitely have to have it's own cage and you cannot put it in the same room with her at first. It must be quarantined as far away from her as possible and it must stay that way for no less than 30 days. Even if it comes from a very reputable breeder, you still cannot take the chance of either of them making the other one sick. It will take the entire 30 days for you to be positive the new one is not hiding some illness. Many bird illnesses are contagious through the air. That's why a new one must be in a separate room, as far away as possible. While it is in quarantine, you must also be sure to wash your hands with an antibacterial soap in between handling either bird or anything they use or come in contact with. Make sure they each have their own set of dishes and everything and no matter how well you wash them, still, don't mix them back and forth between the two.

As for the paying part, all you have to do is go to the place on the answer that says "accept" and click on that. Any further instructions you need should come right up. (I have never visited the site as a customer so I am not sure exactly what you will see.) If you have any questions at all about the payment process, you can contact customer service by clicking on the "help" at the bottom of the page or by sending an email to info@justanswer.com. Someone who knows much more about that end of it will be happy to help you.

I hope I have covered everything for you but if not, let me know. Patricia

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thank you very much patricia,you helped me alot! i will try to do it right .i will pay now.have a good day and we might talk again in the future.thanks and bye isabell.

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